Earlier this week I posted a link to some excellent videos by Joe Sansalone in Part 1 of this series.  In Part 2 I posted a discussion I had with Joe himself covering some of the questions that these videos generated for me.  Today, my hope is to wrap up with some final thoughts on these videos and how I intend to incorporate this information into my programming.

Perhaps the single most important thing I took from this series is that in our attempt to be efficient and do the whole YTWL series, we glaze over the fact that most people hardly have the required motor control to do any one of these movements on their own.  In doing so, we reinforce the poor motor patterns and let the scapula migrate upwards during the prone Y due to the upper traps instead of maintaining focus on scapular depression and upward rotation created by the lower traps.  Moreover, we make things worse by sometimes adding weight as soon as a person can hit the prescribed number of reps.

Being a former biomechanics geek, I feel that Joe has a good point about electrode placement affecting readings of muscle activation in any movement.  I also agree that individual performance of any movement will result in some variation in which muscles are recruited.  However, EMG can be a tremendously useful tool and discounting muscle activation studies based on these points might be a little neglectful.  After all, EMG is a huge component of Dr. Stuart McGill’s spine model and few people question this element of his research.  Granted, if you’ve seen the mathematics involved in this model you’d have to be Einstein just to make your argument anyway.

I still believe that performing a wall slide facing the wall will activate the serratus to a greater degree than the lower traps based on EMG and the angle of pull of both muscles.  Raising the arms from the wall at the top of the movement would certainly involve the lower traps if performed properly.   To me, this might be a great way to integrate both movements together to promote upward scapular rotation (a function of both muscles) in a very early progression.

So how would I program the prone Y?  Given what I’ve learned from Joe, I think that I’ll likely begin by performing the Y alone or in a pairing it with another movement promoting upward scapular rotation such as scap push ups or something similar.  Otherwise, I might perform it as part of an overall warm up circuit involving various other activation exercises and mobility drills.  Although I do tend to do some mobility/activation work between sets of exercises, I think that I’ll refrain from this with the prone Y (at least in the beginning) since people might be inclined to just hammer their way through it when their adrenaline is pumping instead of paying attention to the motor control element.  I’d also keep the reps low (between 5-8) to emphasize the importance of taking it slow and getting the movement right.

As far as progressions go, I figure that I’ll probably work from the Y through the rest of the YTWL (actually Nick Tuminello’s LYTP) series one by one before adding range of motion.  Only once this has been achieved would I consider stringing the movements together for strength endurance and finally adding weights.  Of course, some will move quickly through this progression and others will be slower, but that’s what I’m thinking right now.

What are your thoughts?  Would you do it differently?  If so, why?

A couple days ago I posted some great videos by Joe Sansalone on how to properly perform the prone Y exercise.  If you missed them you should definitely check them out HERE.  Recently I had a brief discussion with Joe via email and asked him if I could share it here because I think the information was incredible.

ME:  After watching your videos on StrengthCoach.com it got me rethinking the whole notion of doing the old YTWL combo (although I currently use Nick Tuminello’s ordering of the exercises found HERE).

Given most people’s inability to properly do the Y pattern, I was thinking that doing the whole thing as a combo might not be the best idea until they can program each exercise properly by themselves. Would you generally agree with this? Moreover, would you ever program them all together?

Joe:  I agree that doing the whole series may not be the best idea, especially with beginners or people with major scapulo-thoracic issues. I often and most of the time program them separately and in various places in the program depending on several factors.

I agree that until a person has mastery of each movement and some base level of strength to perform each one correctly into some level of fatigue, that it is counterproductive to do them as a series. Often it seems we do exercises just to be able to say we did todays program instead of seeing if the client is actually getting the intended benefit of the program. I think this can easily happen with the YTWL as a series. We simply perform them because we know it has benefit and because it is on the paper.

I do sometimes perform them together as a means for developing scapulo-thoracic and shoulder stabilization endurance. Often times in movements the scap muscles will act as stabilizers as much as prime movers and certainly the rotator cuff is being asked to control and contribute to the humeral part of the YTWL series and because of these facts I think, if mastery and proper motor programming is present within each movement prior, than the whole series done together and properly progressed to external load can be good to develop strength-endurance in the shoulder girdle.

I do think that it is more likely to need to separate the movements then link them together for the points you mentioned.

Me:  I recently read a study that demonstrated that a wallslide performed facing a wall primarily activates the serratus anterior and not the lower traps. Do you think this has any implication for why doing a Y against a wall helps as a progression to the Y on the floor since they both upwardly rotate the scapula?

Joe:  I am not a big fan of studies that say this exercise activated that because it seems to me what gets activated greatly depends on where the electrodes were placed and even more on the individual muscle recruitment patterns and execution/proficiency of the person being tested based on their functional capacity, mechanics, restrictions and dysfunctions.

If you take a person who sucks at using their glutes to extend their hip in a bridge due to inhibition because of a tight anterior hip capsule, they will be forced to reduce the neural drive to their glute and increase greatly the neural drive to their hamstrings and lumbar extensors. This would make a glute bridge appear like it activated more hamstring and low back than glute. if in three weeks they were taught to do it right and went back and got tested again the results would show the opposite. This is my problem with studies on exercises and muscle activation. Often times the way the exercise is being executed isn’t taken into account. Look at the plank. People who do it poorly feel the low back due to an inability to control spinal extension and excessive anterior pelvic tilt and those who do it right feel the abs because they are able to properly resist sagital plane force to the spine and pelvis. Muscle activation and recruitment patterns all depends on how the exercise is performed, therefore I do not put much value into these studies because they do not seem to account for movement efficiency or the motor programming of the subjects. I would need to be there to see how each subject was moving to decide if the outcome of the facing the wall wall slide was accurate and then I would need to see a huge sampling.

I think there is an engineered and architecturally designed correct way to move and I think how well we move determines what muscles fire and the sequencing.

Me:  I love your thoughts on breaking apart the series. Your videos really got me thinking along this track. The idea of reintegrating them for strength endurance had not dawned on me though. This is definitely an important step.

Do you teach all movements in the YTWL series in the same way?  (i.e., reach, then set the scap, then perform the movment?)

Joe:  I always teach beginners to purposefully lengthen the muscles first we are trying to activate and contract with each movement. I feel it helps to facilitate a better concentric contraction and recruitment of the target muscles.

With more advanced people I move to elevating them so they can move through a bigger range of motion. With this there is more natural lengthening due to the increased ROM, so i do not find the need to purposefully emphasize the reach or eccentric lengthening here since it is already going to happen for the most part.

Me:  Awesome Joe!  Thanks.

Joe:  My pleasure.

In my next post I’ll include a few more of my own thoughts on this series, but in the meantime you can find Joe on his business page on Facebook and get on his case for not having a blog of his own to share all of his amazing knowledge.

Feel free to share your thoughts below.

If I haven’t already said it enough, StrengthCoach.com is possibly the best discussion forum on the internet for fitness related information.  If you’re not a member you’re missing out.  Just sayin’.

In any case, a few weeks back there was a discussion on the forum about shoulder packing that resulted in one of the most interesting discussions I’ve seen in a long time.  My good friend Bret Contreras has summarized the discussion HERE.

As great as the discussion was, the best part for me was the videos produced by forum member Joe Sansalone.  Take a few minutes and check them out.  Next time I’ll reveal some of my own thoughts as well as a discussion I had with Joe himself.

Feel free to share your thoughts below!

Recently fellow strength coach Nick Tumminello has been revamping the whole notion of the popular YTWL shoulder circuit and I really love his logic.

As this process has been going on I’ve had an opportunity to test  this revised circuit on my clients and the results have been awesome!  Just today Nick dropped me an email saying he’d just created a post detailing the whole process so you can learn how the famous YTWL circuit has become the LYTP circuit.

This series will change how you think about scapular stability!  Here’s just a little piece to wet your appetite.

Check out the rest of this awesome series and even more information HERE.  I guarantee that once you try this you’ll be hooked.